For anyone who doesn't want to go to Aimoo, and just in case something happens to the information on that site, here are all the posts in the thread for which Remuda provided a link above; these were posted between 6/26/10 and 8/8/10:Penski
friends who know guns (old guns and new) a few questions and thought I'd
share. If you have a gun question, let me know and I'll ask them.
far can a pistol shoot? Approximately 75 ft is a long distance for a
pistol and even hard to shoot a man at that distance. In a story I'm
writing, I have them shooting a small flower off a bush 60 ft away and
the guys agreed it wasn't impossible, but you'd have to be an excellent
marksmen to do it.
How long does it take to clean a gun? If the
gun is getting daily proper cleanings, Kid would take 5 minutes to clean
the dirt and corrosive powders out of his gun every night. The gun
came apart in four main pieces: pin, barrel, handle, and bullet
chamber. If the gun got wet, there were more pieces to remove and the
cleaning would take much longer - about an hour. A gun cleaning kit was
mainly a rag and some light oil. Even if Heyes didn't shoot his gun,
he should clean it every day they are on the trail when the gun would
get dust in it.
Doesn't it damage guns to be dropped? YES! They
claim that only amateurs would have someone take a gun out of the
holster with two fingers. There is still a risk of them drawing on you.
The "use your left hand and two fingers" wasn't practical because you
really can't reach your gun (try it). Professionals had someone remove
their whole gun belt. The gun, staying in the holster, would be
somewhat protected from being dropped.Mary
That's interesting Penski. I'd be
interested to know how heavy the guns are. Do they vary in weight and
how practical would it be for a woman who isn't used to handling guns
to hold one steady enough to fire and hit anything or for any length of
time. Also, am I correct in assuming there would be a "kick back" (sorry
can't think of the right word) which would cause problems for the
For any of you still interested in the
guns used, there is a very detailed discussion on the topic on Carolyn's
ASJ Collection site
Don and Amanda give some interesting info!
Penski for all the info about guns and Frankie for the link on the
Penski - I was watching a
western recently - not sure but it could have been one of the episodes
in The Magnificent Seven series and one of the characters was in a
gunfight. His holster was on his right hip but he used his left hand to
draw and shoot with. It seemed really strange and awkward to me.
never really thought of "remove the gun with the left hand and two
fingers" before as being difficult.Sister Grace
At the risk of opening a can of worms -
Has the world of ASJ fan fiction every agreed on which types of guns Kid
and Heyes carried?
It seems that some insist Kid carried a Colt
Peacemaker, while others are just as sure it was the Smith and Wesson
Schofield. Monty Laird is quoted somewhere as saying it's a "Dakota",
whatever that is. It is a little tougher to get a glimpse of Heyes'
gun, since he doesn't draw it as often as the Kid, but maybe a Colt?
I'm doing some research for a possible future fanfic. I'd appreciate any
answers or thoughts any of you would like to share on this. I'm also
devouring past conversations of this subject from other sites and
reading (again) Jo and Sandy's ASJ bible. Ghislaine:
Good topic! When I wrote my VS story and posted the beginnings on the old board, I made reference to Kid's Peacemaker. That was questioned so I looked in Sandy and Jo's book and in the back it said he used a Schofield so I changed it in my story.
I've read different things in different stories.
In case it's useful, here's some history about the Schofield, for those who are
interested, taken from The Gunfighter: Man or Myth, by Joseph G.
Rosa (ISBN 0-8061-1561-0): There was a test conducted by the US Board of
Ordnance of three revolvers in February 1876. "The Schofield took only
fifty-nine seconds against the Colt's one minute fifty-four seconds and
the Remington's comparable time. [Ghislaine's note: I'm not clear on
the models of the other two weapons but I think it's referring to a
Peacemaker.] During the next few days all three revolvers were subjected
to very stiff tests for rust and fouling resistance and endurance. As
the conclusion of the tests it was decided that the Colt was the weapon
'best adapted to meet all the requirements of the military service.'
Nevertheless, 8005 Schofields were ordered by the government because the
Board of ordnance believed that they 'would be in demand by a large
class of commissioned officers in time of war.' Peacemakers remained
official side arms of the cavalry until 1892."beejay
I didn't know what the Kid used, but I've always assumed Heyes' was a Colt. I actually have no idea where I read or heard that.
Here's the actual reference in Sandy and Jo's book about Kid's gun: On P. 126 it says Monty Laird made the "... Smith and Wesson Scofield pistols that Ben used on the show." You can see that the spelling of the model of the gun is different here--I don't
know what that means.
Thanks for the help on this, beejay and Ghis. It would have taken me forever
to find that specific sentence in the ASJ book!
As for the spelling (and I won't pretend to know ANYTHING about guns!) it seems you can find it listed using either spelling on the internet, but on the "Smith and Wesson" website, they have it listed only as SCHOFIELD.
Curiouser and curiouser! Is this how myths start?! Having read the Jo and Sandy book I now tend to refer to Kid having a Sc(h)ofield and Heyes has a Colt - perhaps I'll just stick to 'gun' and 'weapon' in the future!
I just watched "Miracle at Santa Marta" and, in the scene where Heyes and Kid
meet Mrs. Hanley for the first time, in her hotel room, about thirty minutes into the episode, she says, speaking to Kid, "He [her husband] was also shot with a Colt .45, which I see you are still wearing."
Either Mrs. Hanley can't tell one gun from another (and why would she, coming
from Lexington, KY, where her husband didn't normally wear a gun) or else Kid did, in fact, use a Colt, maybe a Peacemaker or maybe some other model. Maybe it all depended on the particular episode. Who knows???
So now I say: Finesse it!
One more thought about Kid's gun (and Heyes' gun, also)...Kid lost a few guns (the Mia episode for example) and had to replace them. Who's to say he didn't have a Colt at one time and a Schofield at
another time. I'm sure he had a favorite brand, but it probably depended on what was available when he needed a gun. So, writers, chose YOUR favorite gun and let the boys shoot with it.
In regards to a previous discussion on the spelling of Scofield/Schofield - You're right, Max. I noticed also that in "the book" they spelled the name of the gun "scofield". Just from surfing around the internet, it seems this is a common spelling or perhaps, mis-spelling among gun traders. The spelling is used enough that I found one gun listed under this heading:
& Wesson Replica 1869 Scofield Schofield Pistol
Seeing as how I have no interest a gun, unless it is slung enticingly about the
hips of Kid Curry or held steadily in his unwavering hand, I'd be
willing to accept either Smith and Wesson's spelling, or Monty Laird's
spelling of the word, since he is certainly the ASJ expert!
And Ghis, Yes! Thanks! I also happened to catch that episode during the
past week and noticed the same line!
Penski, I agree. I think as many times as Heyes and Kid had their guns taken from them, they probably lost one or two!
I've just been studying the ASJ annual 1977 which has two pages on Western guns, and that picture of Kid from The Fifth Victim (you know the one from the waist down. The gun he is holidng looks as if it could be a Colt Pacemaker as the barrel appears
to the too long for a Smith and Wesson Scofield.
quote:I have no interest a gun,
unless it is slung enticingly about the hips of Kid Curry or held
steadily in his unwavering hand,
I agree Sister Grace Or unless he is twirling the gun
then dropping it smoothly back into the holster.
Youtube is my new best friend! Here are links to three videos about guns, which I thought people might find interesting. I sure did! The videos range from about eight to ten minutes in duration.
Demonstration of loading and shooting a Colt .45 single-action gun:
Close-up explanation of how a Colt Peacemaker works:
Information about Smith and Wesson Schofields:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bq1aCmULae4nm131:
I'm not a home so I don't have my reference material at hand and the computer I'm using freezes up and won't show videos so I can't look at the youtube videos Ghislaine suggested so I should probably wait BUT ...The Bounty Hunter
is a good episode to see the difference in Heyes and Kid's guns. On the rock when they are going to scare off the Lynch mob, if one can tear their eyes from Kid and Heyes, the way the guns load can clearly be seen. Kid loads his gun from the side of the cylinder turning it as he goes while Heyes's gun breaks between the handle and the cylinder (I haven't memorized gun part names so please excuse the less than technical nomenclature) and loads from the bottom. This breaking of the gun like a hinge, I believe is a feature of a Scofield. Kid's gun is probably meant to be a Colt even though I have read that the Scofield, because of its fast loading capability, was a good choice for gunmen. The colt proved to be extrememly realiable and perhaps that's what mattered more to Kid.Ghislaine:
I just rewatched that scene from The Bounty Hunter
and I can see the difference clearly, too. And I also noticed that both Kid and Heyes load six bullets into their guns. Which, from everything I've seen and read, you're not supposed to do--you're supposed to leave one chamber empty so the gun doesn't go off accidentally. Like, when Kid lays it down on the rock to put his glove back on (and I still don't understand the reason for that).
I just looked at my notes from Tombstone (I kept a journal while travelling and filled up a small notebook) and when I was in one of the stores, my notes say that the Colt doesn't break open but the Schofield does. I also noted that when I picked up the Colt, it was surprisingly heavy. So at least in The Bounty Hunter
, Kid is not using a Schofield.Kwiltn:
Well, remembering back to my .45 cal colt pistol days as an army officer, I'd say the Kid would be using that glove for comfort and grip. Those guns do have quite a kick. However, if speed was a factor, as in the fast draw, he would remove the glove. Sister Grace:
Which, from everything I've seen and read, you're not supposed to
do--you're supposed to leave one chamber empty so the gun doesn't go
My guess on this is that both the guys KNEW their gun wasn't going to go off accidentally. They were making sure they would go off on purpose, as soon as they got them loaded. Six times each, to give Joe a chance to get away.Ghislaine:
My guess on this is that both the guys KNEW their gun wasn't going to go off accidentally.
Ya know, I think there's a story in there...