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 The Moody Partner

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Penski
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PostSubject: The Moody Partner   Mon May 07, 2012 11:15 am

I've read a lot of fanfiction and Virtual Season stories. Some writers portray Heyes as the moody partner while others portray the Kid as the moody one.

Who do you think is moodier, Heyes or the Kid?
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InsideOutlaw

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PostSubject: Re: The Moody Partner   Mon May 07, 2012 12:38 pm

Hmm, good question. I don't remember either being particularly moody in the series. They seemed to handle their sufferings pretty well.

In my personal viewpoint, I think Kid would show his moodiness more easily as I believe that he is a more open, straight forward personality. His temper flares and is over with. Something bothers him and he lets it out in the open. He wouldn't conceal his mood. He is a gunman, so confrontation is acceptable to him.

I see Heyes as a complicated person. He uses sarcasm as a tool to vent his irritations. He doesn't normally seem openly confrontational; he is sneakier about how he deals with people. He would be more likely to be demeaning or condescending to someone who angered him. If something were bothering him, he would spend time thinking his way around it, weighing it from all sides. He would examine his moods and analyze them and probably not ever allow them to show. After all, he has to keep that poker face in place and if he lets his feelings show he has given up the advantage.

Interesting subject, Penski!
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EleanorW

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PostSubject: Re: The Moody Partner   Mon May 07, 2012 3:29 pm

Hmm, interesting question. I agree with InsideOutlaw on the whole. I don't remember either character being overly moody/bad tempered in the show. In fact, most of the time they were both extremely cheerful given the situation they were living in. Off the top off my head I can only think of two episodes where Kid really shows anger - in Smiler, from outrage at what happens to Seth, and in McCreedy Bust: Going, Going, Gone where his frustration at being humiliated by Briggs boils over. On the whole his character was mostly calm, especially when it came to facing up to another gunman. Occasionally he would show some irritation towards Heyes, but then, having to live with Heyes' self proclaimed [but rarely proven] genuis, would try the patience of the calmest of people. :)

With Heyes, as InsideOutlaw says, he is a far more complicated person, a deep thinker who, for a variety of reasons, keeps his feelings hidden away except on the rarest of occasions, perhaps because he's afraid of people seeing the 'real' Heyes and not the one he chooses to portray. - only Kid ever gets to see that side of him - and perhaps because he sees displaying emotion as a weakness. He isn't openly confrontational, preferring a 'don't get mad get even' philosophy when dealing with people who double cross him by using his intelligence to extract his revenge, and prefers to dissolve hostile situations with charm where possible, although, to be leader of an outlaw gang he would obviously have to have a hard core and be able to back up his talk with action when required. We see occasional glimpses of the 'hard' side of Heyes, such as in his confrontational scene in the saloon, with Bilson, in Smiler.
I think fanfic authors probably pick up on these occasional glimpses of mood/anger and have incorporated them into their ideas of what the characters are like, and over time they have come to be accepted as gospel.

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PostSubject: Re: The Moody Partner   Mon May 07, 2012 7:00 pm

Moody is a tough word to define, at least in this context. Each man shows emotions; but when do you say someone has gone from having moods, to being moody?

I really don't see either partner as having big mood swings. Thinking about this question, though, I'm reminded how Pete Duel seemed to be bringing more layers of complexity to Hannibal Heyes in the second season. I'm especially thinking of "The Man Who Broke the Bank at Red Rock" here. Maybe that's why we see more depth, more complex feelings, in Heyes than we do in Curry. And I do always wonder how much Pete Duel's story affects our choices. We may say, "No, I'm not thinking about what happened to Pete." But really, how can you not? That knowledge is in all of us. We may not be consciously referring to it, but it influences how we perceive Hannibal Heyes.

Ben's Kid Curry didn't seem to change too much. Kid wasn't unintelligent by any means, but he seemed to take things as they came. I guess that was the philosopher in him! Or maybe he just didn't express his emotions as easily as Heyes. Heyes, after all, was the great communicator. Kid was a quieter type, keeping more things to himself. Although, in "The Men that Corrupted Hadleyburg," they certainly had a serious talk about their childhood. I don't think we ever saw them having that sort of conversation with other people, though - did we?

Very interesting question. Thanks for posting this. I will look forward to seeing what other people have to say.

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PostSubject: Re: The Moody Partner   Tue May 08, 2012 7:52 am

I had further thoughts on this. I think the episode/scene that formed my opinion of Heyes's temperment more than any others (though I agree with Eleanor that the Man Who Broke the Bank at Red Gap was a very nuanced performance) was the one in the McCreedy Bust GGG where Heyes's tells the Reverend about Kid being a philosopher.

To me, Heyes was incredibly passive agressive here. He was very sarcastic and caustic. You could see the look of disbelief and the hurt reaction on Kid's face. I always thought it was so cruelly done but also very believable. Heyes was furious that Kid insisted on wearing his gun and jeopardizing both of them. He expressed his anger directly to Kid but failed to stop him. I think he took his revenge on Kid by publicly humiliating him.
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PostSubject: Re: The Moody Partner   Tue May 08, 2012 2:56 pm

Fun topic, Ms. Penski. You ask very interesting questions.

Flipping through my memories of the episodes, I wouldn't classify either Heyes or the Kid as moody. They have an elastic and flexible view of morality, and rarely judge others or become indignant about what someone else has done. They also seem to accept that consequences exist for their crimes. They go gracefully when captured and don't hold a grudge against lawmen or bounty hunters for chasing them. Of course, they will look for and take any chance to escape, but they never act as if they have been wronged by the law. They are practical about both their crimes and the possible consequences. They rarely stand on any moral high ground, or act defensive.

They have a particularly masculine approach to adversity. Problems are to be overcome, solved, or ignored. I rarely see them waste time being anxious over their circumstances. They do spend time looking for and thinking about solutions to their problems.

I agree with InsideOutlaw and Eleanor that Heyes is the sneakier and more caustic of the two. Kid is also very good at sarcasm, but I don't remember him using it to hurt others. In addition to the scenes in GGG already mentioned, Heyes is sarcastic and hurtful to Louise in Everything Else You can Steal.

But I still wouldn't call either character moody. They express their anger, verbally or in actions, and then move on to something else. I don't see either of them wallowing in emotions of any kind. They are more action orientated. I see them asking themselves what they should do next to get out of whatever hot water in which they have landed, not how they should feel about it.
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PostSubject: Re: The Moody Partner   Tue May 08, 2012 3:25 pm

InsideOutlaw wrote:


To me, Heyes was incredibly passive agressive here. He was very sarcastic and caustic. You could see the look of disbelief and the hurt reaction on Kid's face. I always thought it was so cruelly done but also very believable. Heyes was furious that Kid insisted on wearing his gun and jeopardizing both of them. He expressed his anger directly to Kid but failed to stop him. I think he took his revenge on Kid by publicly humiliating him.

I do often wonder, had this episode been made earlier in the series, before Pete was so obviously past caring, as he was in GGG and the following episodes, whether he might have delivered the dialogue in a different, less aggresive way. Perhaps the harshness displayed there was due more to the way Pete himself felt, about life and the world, at that time, than a deliberate chacterisation for the show. It was said that he was unhappy with the episode he watched on the night of his death, perhaps because, on watching it back, he could see himself that his personal problems were beginning to impact on the quality of his acting.

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PostSubject: The Moody Partner   Tue Jan 07, 2014 9:46 am

Oooh I think they are both moody at times however I lean a lot more to Heyes being moodier. it is not necessarily because I see him as a dark character but I tend to think there are a lot of thoughts going on in that dark haired man. Depending on what he is deliberating on would effect his mood a lot that day just like anyone else.
I have always felt that he thinks a lot about the past, the choices he has made and how they have effect not only him but Jed. I also feel he carries around a certain amount of guilt from these decisions he has made which tends to make him moodier in my mind. It is also the looks you see on his face...so many that are contemplative to the point of looking a bit dark. Okay so I start out by saying I don't see him as a dark character but maybe I do more than I realized. There was a line I head once a show I like, the main character says, "I never thought of myself as an angry man." and the reply he gets is a amazed laugh, "You are the angriest man I have ever known." I think sometimes I see this in Heyes...he pretends he isn't angry, most people see him as a good ol' boy but those who know him like Kid, Big Jim, Soapy and some of the Devil's Hole know the real truth.
Kid on the other hand seems to deal more on the day to day basis. Yeah there are times the day or his partner gets him twisted up and darkens his mood overall he seems to handle it better then HH. I think personally Kid is prone to fly off the handle far quicker then Heyes. However that is not so much moodiness as the ability to let go and not dwell on things.

So yea Hannibal Heyes is the moody one that Jed Curry has to deal with.

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PostSubject: Re: The Moody Partner   Tue Jan 07, 2014 5:13 pm

Red, I largely agree. However, I do note that the Kid has a serious amount of pride. It doesn't take a tremendous amount to provoke him into drawing on someone or throwing a few punches - or more than a few. How he kept that pretty face that long, I don't know. Of course, with his fast draw, having a bit of a temper was needed - or he'd never get to show off the draw. So Heyes tries to keep an even keel to avoid having the Kid make their identities obvious with his draw. But with the Kid, sometimes Heyes really loses it. And Heyes is, at times, vindictive. Not often - but at times. And they are both so used to violence that it takes an awful lot to bother them.
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PostSubject: Re: The Moody Partner   Wed Jan 08, 2014 7:54 am

Interesting question, and interesting responses.   two thumbs 

I'd like to throw in my two cents by suggesting that perhaps the "moodiness" of a particular character might have more to do with an actor's portrayal of a role (and relationship between actors), rather than the character "Heyes" or "Curry" as written.

I have heard, for instance, (and I am not certain of this fact so forgive me if I'm wrong) that the role of "Georgette Sinclair" was originally written as "Clementine Hale," yet when Sally Field was not available for the role (due to pregnancy, maybe?) Michele Lee got the part.  I have heard that Michele Lee portrayed Clementine so differently from Sally Field, that it was decided to create the new character--Georgette.

Perhaps the "moodiness" some see in Pete's version of Heyes might be a reflection of Pete's own introspective nature?  I don't know, since I never knew Pete.  I'm just making a casual observation.  Pete did create, in my opinion, a distinct depth to Hannibal Heyes--greedy outlaw, seeker of revenge when he feels he or his partner has been wronged, loyal friend, skeptical about finding good in others, and unwilling to truly trust anyone other than the Kid, in whom he places complete and unwavering faith.  

Some of these qualities are no longer seen in Roger's version of Heyes, yet I see other qualities emerge.  Heyes' "moodiness" disappears, only to be replaced with bouts of what I'll call "crankiness" instead.  (Possibly brought on by the rapport between actors?)  Roger's Heyes feels more self-confident, independent, easy-going, having complete faith and trust in his own, individual capabilities, and sometimes critical of his partner's.        

Now throw into this unique mix, Ben's Kid Curry.  Kid Curry doesn't remain a constant, even though only ONE Ben portrays the Kid, first with Pete, and later with Roger.  Ben has been known to compare his partnership with these two actors to marriage.  Imagine being married to one person, only to awaken one morning, to find yourself married to someone else!  This so-called "marriage" might still BE a marriage, yet the relationships would most certainly have their own unique aspects or qualities, different strengths and weaknesses.  

As for my own interpretation of their partnerships, I'll go out on a limb and describe Pete and Ben's version of HH and KC as a "marriage" -- two individuals functioning together as one unit -- and Roger and Ben's version of HH and KC as more of a "living together" arrangement. ;)

As for the Kid's "moodiness," perhaps with Pete, Curry displayed more of a strong, silent-type personality, which some might call moody, and Heyes would call "proddy."  With Roger, I think Curry displays more impatience or frustration with the partnership, like two brothers, sometimes feuding, but always loyal.

I guess, in closing to my long-winded analysis, all three actors display what could be construed as "moodiness," but I'll cast my vote into the "Pete Heyes" corner, since his introspective nature most closely resembles my definition of "moody."

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PostSubject: Re: The Moody Partner   Wed Jan 08, 2014 2:20 pm

Moody? Kid? The most perfect man in the world?

I think you jest.

What do you mean I'm biased? Moi? Very Happy 

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