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 Geoffrey Deuel?

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Yope1995

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PostSubject: Geoffrey Deuel?   Thu Aug 29, 2013 4:21 pm

Howdy ladies! grouphug It's been quite a while. sm Hope you're all doing well!

Anyway, on to my question. I found another ASJ fan who's my age, and we got to talking how much we like Peter as Heyes. That hair, the dimples, those deep chocolatey brown eyes you could just drown in...-
Ahem yes - later, we came to the subject of Roger replacing Peter. And how much Geoff looked and sounded like his brother...
Why the heck didn't they put him in Heyes's role!?

Okay, sorry. A little befuddled is all. XD It came up in our chatting and I said I'd ask you ladies your opinions on the subject. :)

-Yope
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Penski
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PostSubject: Re: Geoffrey Deuel?   Thu Aug 29, 2013 6:16 pm

The decision had to be quickly made with no "down" time. Who was under contract and who was available - Roger Davis. Huggins had worked with Roger and knew his work. Work on the episodes continued at noon the day Pete died.

I agree that Geoffrey would have made a wonderful choice, but was he under contract? Available? You have to remember that Geoffrey was probably in shock from losing his big brother to suicide. He was grieving and not available emotionally in a role with no "down" time. Besides, would he have wanted to jump into a role his brother was unhappy to be in.

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Yope1995

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PostSubject: Re: Geoffrey Deuel?   Thu Aug 29, 2013 6:30 pm

Oh yeah, that makes sense. Thank you, Penski!
Embarassed Now I feel bad because I hadn't thought of how hard that must've been.

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Keays

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PostSubject: Re: Geoffrey Deuel?   Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:39 pm

Also, Geoff did go in and try to do some voice-overs for the show because as you stated, Yope, he and Peter did sound very much alike. But Geoff couldn't do it. He just couldn't handle it, so I doubt very much that even if he had been asked to take over the role completely he would have refused.

The whole thing was handled to callously. It seemed that the only thing that matter to the producers was keeping to their schedule and no down time for grieving was given to anyone.

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sistergrace

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PostSubject: Re: Geoffrey Deuel?   Fri Aug 30, 2013 6:34 am

When all this happened back when I was a pre-teen, I remember thinking the same thing, Yope.  Why wouldn't they have chosen Geoff, who viewers would certainly love as much as they had loved Pete?  Thinking from his brother's point of view, I can see what a strange and uncomfortable situation that would have been for Geoff.  

I also wonder if the producers or other powers that be were doing what felt they had to do in a bad situation.  They had deadlines to meet, people who needed paychecks to continue coming in, etc.  I wasn't there, so I don't know, but I'm just trying to put the best construction on what they may have been thinking.

Also wanted to chime in with a quick reference to "The Young Country."  Not exactly a "pilot" for ASJ, but Pete Duel was "Honest John Smith" while Roger Davis was... Well, not exactly his partner, but more of a rival, for the attentions of the lovely young "Clementine Hale."   This TV movie was written and directed by Roy Huggins and both Pete and Roger were not-so-honest gamblers, but like HH and KC, they were likeable guys.  Seems understandable that Roger might be seen as the logical choice for the "Heyes" character.  This movie had aired shortly before the start of ASJ.  

It is an enjoyable TV movie, especially for fans of ASJ. It's available on you tube at the following link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hb3bMHH2xbE

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Tashmina

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PostSubject: Re: Geoffrey Deuel?   Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:21 am

Hi Yope,
 
I think the last thing on the mind of the powers behind ASJ was to do it right.  I think they had a knee-jerk reaction and thought that doing just about anything was better than nothing at all.  I do think lessons were learned about taking more time when tragedy hit after Pete's untimely death, but the dollar was definitely king.
 
Alfred Hitchcock once corrected somebody who misquoted him by saying, "I never said all actors were cattle, I said all actors should be treated like cattle."  Now whilst there is some dry, understated English wit there, there is also an essence of truth.  
 
I have friends who are actors and it's a tough life unless you are a star.
 
Many producers put their end product above the people who create it.  They can generally be replaced.  Sometimes though, somebody is so special that trying to replace them simply doesn't work.
 
Vision doesn't get you very far if you forget about the people at the coalface, does it?
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Ghislaine Emrys
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PostSubject: Re: Geoffrey Deuel?   Fri Aug 30, 2013 3:12 pm

In the ASJ book by Sandy Sagala and Jo Bagwell, there's a section all about this.  If I recall correctly, the producers wanted to end the show but the executives at ABC, to whom they were under contract, wouldn't allow it.  I highly recommend the book, Alias Smith and Jones: The Story of Two Pretty Good Bad Men, if you haven't already read it.

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Penski
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PostSubject: Re: Geoffrey Deuel?   Fri Aug 30, 2013 3:21 pm

Thanks, Ghislaine!

I knew it wasn't the producers (Huggins, Swerling, and Larson) who were making production continue.

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Keays

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PostSubject: Re: Geoffrey Deuel?   Fri Aug 30, 2013 5:55 pm

Yes, that's true. It wasn't so much the producers as the executives. Right in the middle of reading that book again but haven't gotten to that part yet.

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PostSubject: Re: Geoffrey Deuel?   Fri Aug 30, 2013 7:01 pm

Well, the executives at Universal would have had contracts with ABC, the channel airing the series. ABC probably had contracts with the advertisers that would be in effect until the end of the season. In those days seasons had a set number of episodes, and the advertising slots were most likely sold in advance for Alias Smith and Jones as it was an established series. There could have been a number of legalities that would prevent immediate cancellation.
I don't recall if Sandy and Jo's book addressed the motives of the executives at Universal or ABC(or if they actually had access to anyone who would know). Did it?
It did do well enough to be picked up the following year, but then the time slot was changed, wasn't it? And then the ratings dropped. Almost as if ABC wanted to let it go. NBC did that to Star Trek, and they did it deliberately, as they never believed it was a popular show.



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Ghislaine Emrys
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PostSubject: Re: Geoffrey Deuel?   Fri Aug 30, 2013 7:45 pm


I went and looked in the book. Here are some quotes that shed additional light on what went on:

P. 229: Huggins recalled, "I immediately decided that the show was cancelled. That was it." He told Swerling to begin shutting down the production company.

P. 229: By 7:00 a.m., the crew was on the set, silently milling around, unsure what to do. Huggins and Swerling arrived at the studio expecting to shut down the company. But ABC had different plans.

P. 230: As the head of television for Universal, [Frank] Price had to look at the matter from several different perspectives. Personally, he spent the day operating in a state of shock. Professionally, he had a job to do, which was to deliver a series to ABC and fulfill the studio's contractual obligations. Artistically, he had to decide what was best for the show--recast the role or shut down production. The studio's obligation to the network took precedence when ABC made it clear they wanted the series to continue. As Jo Swerling remembers, "The show was doing well for (them), so they expected us to keep delivering the show. And if we didn't, they would sue us...They said, 'You've got a contract. We expect you to deliver, and if you don't, you're in breach of contract and we will pursue all legal possibilities.'"

There's more information in the book, too much for me to type here.



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BeeJay
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PostSubject: Re: Geoffrey Deuel?   Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:45 pm

Thank you, Ghislaine. I'll have to go back and re-read that part in the book.

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BeeJay
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PostSubject: Re: Geoffrey Deuel?   Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:46 pm

Yope, your avatar is amazing, really stunning.

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RosieAnnie

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PostSubject: Re: Geoffrey Deuel?   Sat Aug 31, 2013 6:55 am

There's one other reason to keep a show in production, even in these circumstances, and that's to keep people employed. A TV show isn't just stars, producers, directors; it's hair stylists, costume mistresses, caterers, production assistants . . . a long list of people whose income is attached to the production of a TV show. When that show goes out of production, these people lose their jobs. The lucky ones might get attached to another show quickly, but there's no guarantee of that. As long as AS&J was in production, these people were able to support themselves and their families.

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PostSubject: Re: Geoffrey Deuel?   Sat Aug 31, 2013 9:03 am

I suppose what I resent about that whole situation was not that the show continued on, but that there was no time given for grieving. I understand about the contracts and wanting to keep people working etc. but as we have all commented about before; there was never any mention of his passing, no dedication at the end of BGITW. Nothing. It was as though Peter never existed. I know that the producers later apologized about that stating that everyone was in shock and it just didn't occur to them to do something like that but still it rankles just a bit.

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PostSubject: Re: Geoffrey Deuel?   Sat Aug 31, 2013 9:44 am

You're 100% right, Keays. Not giving time off to grieve and mourn seems unreal now. How could anyone be so callous? I think companies have gotten a lot smarter in the past 40 years about these things. I have no doubt that "Glee" is acknowledging the recent death of one of its major stars with dignity and respect. At least, I hope so.

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PostSubject: Re: Geoffrey Deuel?   Sat Aug 31, 2013 10:42 am

Wow, thanks for all the info, ladies! And for mentioning that book, Ghislaine. I had no idea there was a book on the show. I'll have to check that out.

Calico, thanks! I drew that on a road trip up to Fort Wayne. :)

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PostSubject: Re: Geoffrey Deuel?   Sat Aug 31, 2013 6:48 pm

Yope1995 wrote:


Calico, thanks! I drew that on a road trip up to Fort Wayne. :)
That was me, Yope. My avatar is one evil cat, Calico's is two, as she is double trouble!Very Happy (just kidding, Calico)
I am jealous; you are a fantastic artist. sunny 

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Yope1995

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PostSubject: Re: Geoffrey Deuel?   Sat Aug 31, 2013 7:40 pm

LOL! Oops, I just always look at avatars to identify others. ;D
And we all know the kitties are in cahoots! They're planning (actually I think they've succeeded) domination of the forum. They've already conquered the avatars and slip in and out of everyone's fanfics. ;)
Hey Calico! You're famous!! (I mean, has anyone actually counted the ASJ fanfics that include the appearance of a calico cat?)

Aw, thank you so very much again, BeeJay! (Hehe got it this time!) I'm still a beginner though, in my opinion. I want to be able to draw like Glynnis Miller someday. Her art is amazing.

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