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 That Scene's Gotta Go!

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Penski
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PostSubject: That Scene's Gotta Go!   Tue May 14, 2013 8:18 am

You're watching another episode of your favorite show (What do you mean what show? Of course Alias Smith and Jones!) when you grimace and think, "Why did Huggins write it that way? If I was writing, I would have written it like this..."

So what scene in an episode do you shake your head at and how would you have done it different?
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PostSubject: Re: That Scene's Gotta Go!   Tue May 14, 2013 8:27 am

I really enjoy Shootout at Diablo Station, but Curry escaping only to go into a secret hiding place near the fireplace? What were they hoping to accomplish with that scheme? And who thought it up? I say "they" because I'm sure the Kid didn't come up with it. He's a man of action and he wouldn't have know about the hiding place.

If I was writing the scene, I would have the Kid escaped. Oh, he may not have gotten far, but he could have been hiding in the barn or outside. The gang could have used one of the gals or Heyes as a threat - "Come out or we'll shoot the gal!" Or even the Kid hiding under the table and reaching for a gun when he's spotted. Makes more sense than a secret hidding place.

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PostSubject: Re: That Scene's Gotta Go!   Tue May 14, 2013 12:38 pm

I always grimace when the singing starts in JfSJ. If I was writing it... well, I just wouldn't! Maybe they could have had a nice fight instead?
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PostSubject: Re: That Scene's Gotta Go!   Tue May 14, 2013 2:14 pm

Wow -- much as I love this show there are several cringe-worthy scenes.

I think one of the ones that bugs me the most is in Boxcar #3 when the Kid leaves the saddlebags with Annabelle while he goes looking for work -- I just don't see anyone (much less him) doing that if he thinks they contain $50,000. So I guess to rewrite it, I'd have him grab the saddlebags, her freak out that he's going to leave her to starve and him maybe leaving her his coat as reassurance that he'll be back (after all he has to leave something behind to give a reason that he would follow the train once he gets booted off). But there's not a chance he'd leave the money.
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PostSubject: Re: That Scene's Gotta Go!   Tue May 14, 2013 2:57 pm

I'd be mighty uncomfortable thinking I could write anything better than Huggins and his staff did, but I do have a few scenes that make me cringe.

1. The Girl in Boxcar #3 - When Curry shoves the elderly man. There are points to be argued as to whether or not "our" Kid Curry would have done that, but still, it makes me cringe every time. No

2. High Lonesome Country - When Heyes and Curry are waiting it out, trapped by a shooter with a rifle and they take turns running out to draw fire. The fellas in my head would have given their lives for each other, not bantered about reasons why the OTHER should risk his life.

3. Pilot - When Miss Porter suggests that the guys help her out at the bank because she's "only a woman," I just wanna spit nails!

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PostSubject: Re: That Scene's Gotta Go!   Tue May 14, 2013 2:59 pm

Oh! How could I forget!

PLEASE cut that "Take A Look Around" song from Return to Devil's Hole!!!

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PostSubject: Re: That Scene's Gotta Go!   Tue May 14, 2013 3:28 pm

sistergrace wrote:
Oh! How could I forget!

PLEASE cut that "Take A Look Around" song from Return to Devil's Hole!!!
ROFL! I have nothing against Tim Morgon's singing, but that song just DIDN'T belong on ASJ. xD

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PostSubject: agree   Tue May 14, 2013 5:36 pm

I am right there with you on all you spoke of Sister Grace.


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PostSubject: Re: That Scene's Gotta Go!   Tue May 14, 2013 8:35 pm

I agree with most of you ladies, but Sister Grace hit the nail on the head with 'High Lonesome Country'. One of my favorite RD episodes but that scene always did bother me. I think Kid would have been a lot more compassionate towards Heyes simply for the fact that he was injured but even putting that aside; they just wouldn't have spoken to each other that way.

And yes; 'Take A Look Around' could also take a hike!

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PostSubject: Re: That Scene's Gotta Go!   Wed May 15, 2013 5:37 am

There's a scene in "The Fifth Victim" between Jake and Rachel Carlson that, I suppose, was intended to show the source of their conflict. But the dialogue is confusing and nonsensical. I look at that scene and think, what the heck are they talking about? It just doesn't work.

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PostSubject: High Lonesome   Wed May 15, 2013 6:40 am

At the risk of jumping off the deep end and switching the thread of this topic and if it needs to be moved to a new thread I understand...well here I go -- taking a breath and jumping in.

The conversation which is being referred to in High Lonesome Country which is supposed to sound like bantering (I suppose) is to me a prime difference between a Duel & Davis episode. The characters slowly morphed with Davis. As obviously they would. The dynamics were forced upon Davis & Murphy (more literally than I wish to get into having read that chapter) however with these force dynamics came a new flavor to the characters. They were still Heyes & Curry but they were the puns were sharper, the smiles were more jagged, the laughter more pained and as they proceeded the comradity changed Kid became the stronger character (which I also understand why) but story-wise it changed the initial design as we all knew it. So by the time High Lonesome Country came along - in a nutshell - we find them encouraging one another to be shot at and this is so 360 degrees from the men we were introduced to. So maybe it is not the scene which is so wrong but the slow degrees of changes which altered the men we originally loved so well.

Well what do others think?

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PostSubject: Re: That Scene's Gotta Go!   Wed May 15, 2013 7:15 am

WichitaRed wrote:
At the risk of jumping off the deep end and switching the thread of this topic and if it needs to be moved to a new thread I understand...well here I go -- taking a breath and jumping in.

The conversation which is being referred to in High Lonesome Country which is supposed to sound like bantering (I suppose) is to me a prime difference between a Duel & Davis episode. The characters slowly morphed with Davis. As obviously they would. The dynamics were forced upon Davis & Murphy (more literally than I wish to get into having read that chapter) however with these force dynamics came a new flavor to the characters. They were still Heyes & Curry but they were the puns were sharper, the smiles were more jagged, the laughter more pained and as they proceeded the comradity changed Kid became the stronger character (which I also understand why) but story-wise it changed the initial design as we all knew it. So by the time High Lonesome Country came along - in a nutshell - we find them encouraging one another to be shot at and this is so 360 degrees from the men we were introduced to. So maybe it is not the scene which is so wrong but the slow degrees of changes which altered the men we originally loved so well.

Well what do others think?

I haven't watched the scene in a while but I do see it as egging each other on rather than bantering. Both don't want to run but both also know they have to run to discover where the shooter is. I never took it as light bantering - both know full well what is at stake. And in the light of the story, the characters had to change. They've been on the run for years now, getting desperate whether they'll ever have their amnesty at all...with that in mind I don't mind the change in characters. I always enjoyed it when Kid became a stronger character rather than the security guard that surrounded Heyes wherever he went. In the later episodes they were more equals - with Curry every now and then seriously questioning Heyes' actions. Yet, Kid seemed to get himself into trouble as soon as he was on his own, which was a character feat I never really understood.

But I agree with you that the stories changed and that's what ultimately put me off. Strange really - I don't watch some of Duel episodes because they're too sugar-y and I don't watch the later Roger episodes because they're too... I don't know... mainstream western? The humor disappeared.
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PostSubject: Re: That Scene's Gotta Go!   Wed May 15, 2013 8:48 am

That is a good point, Wichita. I had never quite looked at it that way before. They would be getting more desperate and more travel-weary and therefore might tend to snipe at one another more often. And that was a very intense scene. But still it is also that change in the flavour of the series that put me off of it. I watched the RD episodes out of loyalty to the series and I agree that Kid Curry's character did develop into a more mature and stronger person (he looked pretty damn good too!), but I rarely go back and watch those episodes now. Once I get tired of watching Peter (yeah, right!) I might watch the RD episodes again and perhaps appreciate them more.

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PostSubject: Re: That Scene's Gotta Go!   Thu May 16, 2013 6:44 am

You all have already mentioned several of the scenes I'd like to cut, but there's one more that's always bothered me.

That scene in the McCready Bust after Heyes wins the $20,000 from Big Mac the boys go on a tear in the local saloon and get so drunk that they are easily captured by Armendariz.

Why would two such accomplished outlaws do such a dumb thing? Yes, they couldn't know Armendariz would come for them, but they are partying in a saloon owned by the man they just took the money from and in a town the man pretty much owns and they let themselves get that drunk? It seems to me that Heyes and Curry would've taken the money and run, but then we wouldn't have had the rest of the episode to enjoy.
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PostSubject: McCreedy's Bust   Wed May 22, 2013 6:43 am

Okay so I re-watched this one yesterday with my ten year old niece, by the way she is a Heyes Gal. Kind of thought she would go for Kid but no she told me Heyes was almost as cute as Harry Stiles (he's from One Direction) let me tell you that is a high compliment.

Anyway...Indian Outlaw I agree with you almost on the drinking scene.
It is a good idea.
A celebration after getting the money back.
However I do cringe and DID when they were singing it just looks silly.
But, it was also time era too. So there is that coin flip going on again.
Maybe you could say since they are so new at this being on their own no DHG around this was a slip that taught them a valuable lesson. It might make an interesting story actually the thought/discussion of the learned lesson from that night. But, I do hate seeing our boys captured so easily, at least Heyes laid one out.

But, the part I think could be taken out is Heyes falling with the bust. Okay, knocking the plant of was comedy and they had to run, run, run...but the trip/fall made Heyes look so klutzy which is so out of persona for him. I would love to see those few seconds gone from the episode.

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PostSubject: Re: That Scene's Gotta Go!   Thu May 23, 2013 9:15 am

Inside Outlaw, Wichita Red, you both bring up some good points about the scenes in this episode.

Inside Outlaw, I guess the scene about drinking and partying didn't bother me as much as it did you. I put it down to a couple young guys who are used to blowing their ill-gotten money on wine, women, and, regrettably, song. Absolutely right that, as famous outlaws, they should be much more on their guard. But, I think of how Maz talks about Heyes' and Curry's actions in her Ranch Days (I almost typed "Randy" Days - Freudian slip!) being fuelled by teenage hormones. They are still young and still stupid. And even I and my friends, back in our 20's, thought doing shots of tequila was essential to any party of celebration. I think of that now and wonder how I ever thought that was fun. If Heyes and Curry could be 60 years old, I think they'd look at the excesses of their shared youth and maybe have similar thoughts, and probably a few regrets.

Wichita Red, yeah, Heyes falling with the bust has always bothered me too. Seems pretty careless for two men who've had so much experience breaking and entering.

The scene that bothers me the most from this episode occurs when Curry talks to the guard in Armendariz' home. You know, let's hope you speak English? Why in heaven's name would a thief get so up close and personal with a witness, who can then easily identify you? Wouldn't Heyes and Curry at least cover their faces with a bandanna? But no, they do everything to make absolutely sure that the guard sees them nice and clear. To me, that makes absolutely no sense. Except as a plot device, of course.

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